Talk:Piccolo
Piccolo Jr. You have to call him Piccolo Jr. That's his real and right name. There's already a Piccolo Sr. His father King Piccolo is Piccolo Sr. And get rid of King Piccolo (James Marsters) on here. He's not the same person. James Marsters potrays Piccolo Jr.'s father King Piccolo. Please call him Piccolo Jr. forever? Eh eh. Not brown light-weight footwear or shoes. They're weighted Namekian shoes. Weighted Namekian shoes. :His name's Piccolo. His father's referenced to as King Piccolo. That should be sufficient. We don't need any more Sr. and Jr. emphasis due to the simplicity of the entire series calling him Piccolo aside from the one tournament that he's called Ma Junior. - 15:43, 6 July 2009 (UTC) No. His name's Piccolo Jr. It will always be Piccolo Jr. forever. Capital P, i, c, c, o, l, o, space, capital J, r, period. The characters of the "Dragon Ball" series should call him Piccolo Jr. and he should call himself Piccolo Jr., because they know and he knows that he's the fifth and final son of King Piccolo. Now change it to Piccolo Jr. It would make me happy if you call him by his real and right name Piccolo Jr. :Sorry, no. Why don't you write to Bird Studio and Shueisha and complain to them to change his name to Piccolo Jr. on all of the releases so that we change it on the article. We only go by the name implied by both the series and manga; his major aliases is Piccolo. Piccolo Jr. is only one of his aliases and limited to one saga. He is also called Ma Junior, but you won't see us using that as his title either. He is the primary Piccolo and therefore we don't need to specify him as Junior. Your answer is no. - 22:03, 6 July 2009 (UTC) You can't call him Piccolo. Piccolo Jr. is not his nickname. That's his real and right name. I'm calling him Piccolo Jr. forever. He'll be mistaken for his father King Piccolo if you call him Piccolo. It's Piccolo Jr. :You can call him what you like, but that doesn't alter the title of the article. And why would you mistake Piccolo for his father when his father is named King Piccolo and not simply Piccolo... - 03:16, 7 July 2009 (UTC) He's being called Piccolo Jr. in the biography and that's final. :We'll see... - 14:45, 7 July 2009 (UTC) :I'm sorry to inform you that temper tantrums don't work well, especially with calm, level-headed people. - 03:48, 10 July 2009 (UTC) Daveigh Chase did not voice Kid Piccolo the only anime she has been involved in is Spirited Away, the voice was clearly provided by a man using a weird high pitched voice I'm assuming Christopher Sabat did the voice as he often voices younger versions of his characters with the exception of Zoro from One Piece. - ( 03:47, October 14, 2009 (UTC)). :You may be correct, but what you're saying is nonetheless an assumption. If you want to change an voice actor in an article, please find some reference as justification, be it imdb or another reputable source. 04:13, October 14, 2009 (UTC) Okay I went back and watched it, I now know it was Chris Sabat who voiced Kid Piccolo in the Funimation Dub if you listen to his first spoken words in episode 123 it sounds like a higher pitched version of Adult Piccolo's regular speaking voice, don't believe me go and watch it. ( 05:10, October 14, 2009 (UTC)). :Professional voice actors are paid to sound like other people. As keen-eared as any fan might be, please find a reputable site to reference as justification, if you want to change the voice actors info. Thank you. 05:28, October 14, 2009 (UTC) : : His father's name is King Piccolo. He is never reffered to as Piccolo. Also, in the episodes, he is called Piccolo, not Piccolo Jr.. We can't put a name on there that they don't call him. That would just confuse people. Question hi should we mention on the page how Piccolo is bald but he isn't even like krillin because krillin eventually has hair and piccolo doesn't and krillin marries an android but piccolo doesn't and krillin has a daughter but piccolo doesn't. should we put all these differences in the trivia and that he is also bald like krillin in the trivia because that is interesting how they are alike but some things different? 21:27, October 19, 2009 (UTC) :i decided to put it on the page, feel free to take it off if you want but i think its interesting 00:54, October 20, 2009 (UTC) : : Well, their hair has nothing to do with it really. Namekains are naturally bald. Krillin waxes. merge? shouldn't the article on king piccolo be merged with this one :Nope, two different characters. 19:52, May 31, 2010 (UTC) :yes it should Supersaiyian11 17:43, September 4,2010 :No it shouldn't, as 10xkamehameha said there two deferent characters, don't try to merge them again. 17:46, September 4, 2010 (UTC) POWER LEVEL sould we have a sec about piccolo power level --Ponds11 18:03, June 8, 2010 (UTC) new image not that the old is bad or something but don't you think this would be a better image for piccolo: :Personally, I prefer the air- I mean the old one. 12:10, July 26, 2010 (UTC) oke, he is just standing so right... Is piccolo ever the strongest? 00:40, December 3, 2010 (UTC) First Z fighter with power level over a million Since he was equal to Frieza's 2nd form (and stronger without his weights) he was pretty much the first Z-Fighter with a power level over a million. I was to lazy to make an account so I just made a suggestion Good idea New family!? Wife, Daughter, Son.... and Turles as his brother in law!? This is madness! No, seriously. What is all this? (Feel free to delete this talk section if the latest Piccolo edit by Sayiavamp is incorrect) Joegt123 05:57, February 6, 2011 (UTC) : This issue was rectified, all is right with the world, ya'll can delete this section of the Talk, now. Joegt123 06:53, February 6, 2011 (UTC) : I'm sorry adout that, plus it wasn't my someway my sister hacked my computerand new I changed it so she wouln't hack in again. 06:04, June 11, 2011 (UTC) Sayiavamp Majunior Ok this wiki says that Ma Junior is 2 different words, in DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi 3 Majunior is ONE word.. Shouldn't it be one word? Nappa77 02:41, May 1, 2011 (UTC) :Nope, "junior" should be separate. 03:09, May 1, 2011 (UTC) ::Nappa77, the manga is a better source than video games for character names' spelling. You should check the manga for this. Also, if you want add a specific spelling in a page, don't remove the previous one, different spelling for a same name are often use in DB media. It's not because you find one spelling in a video game that the same spelling is used in other media. Jeangabin666 07:01, May 1, 2011 (UTC) :: :: ::Oh. Ok, I'll try to keep that in my mind. :) Nappa77 16:09, May 1, 2011 (UTC) Big green? I was watching a dub online and it said piccolo's name was big green? help? 16:50, May 30, 2011 (UTC)DesimoMuchi Oh... the "Big Green" dub cracks me up! (talk) 15:41, March 19, 2015 (UTC) FUNimation Nonsense Piccolo is the name a being born around 1000 years before Dragonball starts who fled Namek involuntarily as a young child during a calamity on Namek. He landed on Earth and trained under the Earth's kami. Eventually he sought to succeed that kami but was told he couldn't because his heart wasn't pure. He shed out that shred of evil in his heart creating Piccolo Daimao, which purified him and he became kami of the Earth. Piccolo Daimao committed horrors on the Earth and was sealed by Mutato, but freed centuries later and eventually killed by Son Goku. However, at he concentrated his essence into Ma Junior and gave birth to that being. This Wiki treats Piccolo as if it only referred to Ma Junior. Note that when Ma Junior dies against Nappa, the original Piccolo who became Kami also dies because they are all the same being in the end. This article needs a major rewrite to be true to the actual anime rather than a FUNimation bastardization. 04:12, January 18, 2013 (UTC) DBZN's King Vegita :King Piccolo, Nameless Namekian, Kami. Maybe read the article and click a couple links to other articles before judging. "Wiki" means short, and each article is a summary of only a single subject. To get a comprehensive grasp of the whole series you need to read all the pertinent pages. 04:27, January 18, 2013 (UTC) ::It's blasphemous enough in itself to use English names that don't even come close to matching the name of the original anime - Daimao refers to demon or devil. However, you have the same person separated over a variety of articles as if they're different people. It's even worse when the Kami article acts as if his name is Kami and that he's the Guardian of the Earth when the title is kami, which is the Japanese word for god - not God - but god. He became god of the Earth. 04:45, January 18, 2013 (UTC) The word blasphemy usually refers to a religious context, I'm not sure that's what you meant. As for Japanese, there is a Japanese version of this wiki that you are free to use, and we list the Japanese names on our articles. Again, please read them before making incorrect comments. Leaving out English names on the English version of the wiki would not make sense. As I already stated, an article with Piccolo Jr., King Piccolo, Kami, and the Nameless Namekian would be too long and unorganized. The content is all here and it makes better chronological sense to list the incarnations separately. For instance, someone wishing to find out about King Piccolo does not require an account of Piccolo Jr.'s adventures on Namek. 08:51, January 19, 2013 (UTC) Possible Unfusion? Alright, we all know that Piccolo "fuses" with two characters: The first one being Nail, the other being Kami. Both times his power increases immensly. When he fused with Nail he was having a fair fight with Frieza in his 2nd form (if my memory serves me correctly), when he fused with Kami he was possibly the strongest fighter that wasn't an Android on the surface of the Earth (Trunks and Vegeta being in the HTC/Room of Spirit and Time, and Goku and Gohan patiently waiting and the Lookout). I wondered what if Piccolo decides to remove the two from his body? Even if it were possible, how much would his power decrease? UltraKAKAROT (talk) 02:38, January 8, 2015 (UTC) :It isn't possible so it doesn't matter but his power would probably go down a lot because him and kami are one in the same but, yea he can't unfuse with Kami or Nail so it don't matter Piccolo even states that once two Nameks fuse they can't unfuse. :Oh, thanks for clearing that up. I didn't recall him stating that he couldn't unfuse, but I have a terrible memory. (talk) 15:38, March 19, 2015 (UTC) :@Goku20 it may be possible that Piccolo either just didn't to be bothered about seperating to revive the dragon balls or that he just doesnt know how its done, he isn't exactly fluent in all matters Namekian since he grew up outside of the culture. He could have forgot as well (him and Kami were once one person so you would think that it should be possible to defuse again too), a loss of some knowledge should not be out of the question since he didn't express any interest in trying to create a new set of dragon balls after him an Kami fused. :@UltraKAKAROT I would guess that his power level would be around the same as when he fused with Nail if he seperated from both now just because of all of the intense training he has been thru since then. Fullmetal36 (talk) 23:36, March 31, 2015 (UTC) Cymbal, Drum etc. are Piccolo's brothers? Since when do namekians have a gender? Namekians don't have a gender, shouldn't it be changed from "brother" to "sibling"? Administratorius Pupicucek (Parašyti) 19:46, April 25, 2015 (UTC) :right. 20:02, April 25, 2015 (UTC) ::Wrong since all Namekians are males they are brothers because even though we know that their are no Females they are still males which means brother not sibling. : they look like males, but they aren't. 20:49, April 25, 2015 (UTC) :Which doesn't mean jack because Dende has stated that Nail and the other nameks on Planet Namek minus Guru are his brother's so they have to be males because of the fact that it gets clearly stated that Nail and Dende are brothers. Also the user who made this section is the one that made the disputed edit and I undone it so the page should stay as it was before the disputed edit was made till the discussion is over. Sibling seems best. Even if they refer to each other as brothers, it's just colloquially since we know they have no gender. 02:03, April 26, 2015 (UTC) how did piccolo go to king kai planet? was because he sacrifice his life for gohan or was it because kami or king kai told king yemma not to send piccolo to hell? (Spice boys (talk) 20:44, May 18, 2015 (UTC) :He was never very evil. King Piccolo was very evil, but Piccolo Jr. (who this page is about) just fought Goku once, and even then it was in a tournament setting. After that he just trained alone, then trained Gohan. Piccolo died defending the Earth, specifically the son of his greatest rival Goku. That and his high power level allowed him to keep his body. 22:19, May 18, 2015 (UTC) ok thanks (Spice boys (talk) 10:01, May 25, 2015 (UTC) Which doesn't make sense due to it's the individual's souls being judged and Piccolo has the soul of King Piccolo which is how reincarnation works. The only logical explanation is that when both Piccolo and Kami die their souls are judged as one and Kami himself pulling a few strings. There isn't any evidence either way however. Dragon Ball lacks clarity in explanations. Piccolo Is it really neccessary adding Piccolo (fused with Nail and Kami) with everything piccolo related in the Battles section? Meshack (talk) 17:49, June 2, 2015 (UTC) :no. 17:51, June 2, 2015 (UTC) ::I mean, not every time, since he does not fuse with them in all fights, he only fused with them once and that's it, they became a new person. 18:41, June 2, 2015 (UTC) Doesn't bother me any. It can be helpful for people to know "what Piccolo" was in the fight. Ripto (talk) 03:11, June 3, 2015 (UTC) question about piccolo how come when someone is Killed by piccolo they Don't get sent to limbo? seperating resurrection 'F' movie and resurrection 'f'' saga '' Altough the saga in dragon ball super is based on the movie resurrection 'f' and some details are similar to each other i still think we should seperate the movie and the saga content especialy here in piccolo info. in his case it goes very different, I will list examples: in the movie piccolo fights shisami while in the saga he gohan does. also in the movie he pupmed gohan's heart after he was hit by frieza while in the saga gohan was injured by tagoma. later he fought tagoma who was dead in the movie, and later fought ginyu. finaly in the saga he sacrficed himself to save gohan from frieza while in the movie he remained alive till the end. therfore i realy do think it is confusing to leave it joined like this. also a movie is a movie and tv is tv i realy do believe you should seperate the sections especialy in piccolo case. Cheamte (talk) 08:39, February 29, 2016 (UTC)cheamte :The same could be said for anime and manga. There are a few differences, and those should be pointed out in the article section. No need to write the 99% of things that happen the same twice. 05:39, March 3, 2016 (UTC) ::i hate the "few differences" excuse. it makes no sense to combine the movies and super plus their mangas Meshack (talk) 20:45, March 3, 2016 (UTC) :::I don't have a good resolution for you hating the correct logical solution. I hate arguments having solely an emotional basis for trying to make every article on the site much worse. 05:56, March 6, 2016 (UTC) it's not emotion, it's trying not to confuse the viewer Meshack (talk) 05:58, March 6, 2016 (UTC) :We've had this debate on several other talk pages already and the outcome remains the same. The viewers get the same info, and your proposal to triple the length of every article without adding new content is preposterous. You need to stop bringing this up on every article. As long as the style stands, everyone should follow the MoS. Only discuss style changes on the MoS talk page. Otherwise all you will accomplish is inconsistency between pages. 23:30, March 6, 2016 (UTC) #I didn't bring this up on Piccolo's page so don't say I brought this up on this page. However, who did bring it up agrees that it should be separated from the movies because he sees how atrocious the "style" is. #The "same outcome" has not remained the same. Either someone doesn't respond or gives up on the topic. :Meshack (talk) 23:41, March 6, 2016 (UTC) ::You're talking about it as if we didn't already talk about it, getting people riled up rather than directing them to the correct place. That's just as bad as bringing it up again here as you have on other non-MoS pages. The outcome has always been the same. You can never figure out a reason why your suggestion is better, and the discussion comes to a close. 23:05, March 8, 2016 (UTC) :i did say why my suggestion is better. i said it would be confusing for the viewer to look for exactly what they're looking for and not being directed to dragon ball super. Meshack (talk) 10:19, March 9, 2016 (UTC) :10X kamehameha i am the one who brought up this topic, i am still new to this wiki therfore didn't know it should be posted on the MOS page, but now i knows. however i did decide to write it here though because in piccolo's case more so then most of the other characters there is a major difference between adaptations so i brought it up here, because it applies more to him then most. the major difference i am talking about is ofcourse the fact he died in super but lives till the end in the movie.along with some other differences Cheamte (talk) 20:31, March 9, 2016 (UTC) ::Meshack STOP, you literally posted about this here and on the MoS since the last time I responded. ::Cheamte, you are right and it is confusing on this article, because the article is not formatted correctly according to the Manual of Style. The sentence that says he died should specifically say it happened in the anime only, whereas he lives in the movie. Feel free to correct this style error. 00:59, March 11, 2016 (UTC) Vegeta's taunting of Cabba Should we really take that to mean Piccolo is stronger than Base Vegeta and Cabba? It seems to be more trash talking then actual statements, Vegeta had been trying to get Cabba to transform by any means necessary right? Kaestal (talk) 11:18, April 12, 2016 (UTC) *The line still implies Piccolo could be stronger than base Goku/Vegeta/Cabba, that's why it says "suggesting" - because it could be, it's not certain. Plus this is not farfetched to be true, as Piccolo was able to fight Frost normally while Vegeta needed Super Saiyan to take out Frost - even after he had been weakened from two fights.--Neffyarious (talk) 11:22, April 12, 2016 (UTC) *Fair enough. Kaestal (talk) 12:04, April 12, 2016 (UTC) :A lot has happened since the Cell saga, but for what it's worth Piccolo was at least as strong as a Super Saiyan back then. Granted everyone is stronger now. 02:52, April 14, 2016 (UTC) is piccolo really Namekian though? in the manga he says to frost that hes not Namekian and that hes Demon like King piccolo (Spice boys (talk) 19:31, May 7, 2016 (UTC) :It's an intimidation tactic. He may also feel personally removed from the peace-loving Namekians after all he's been through. 02:35, May 8, 2016 (UTC) ok that make sense thanks (Spice boys (talk) 18:08, May 8, 2016 (UTC) Gimme me a good reason for rejecting more accurate terminology? Okay, I'll bite. What's the reason for keeping a caption of young Piccolo as "A teenage Piccolo", instead of the more accurate caption of "An adolescent Piccolo"? Piccolo isn't a teenager until the year Trunks is born, I can barely see the logic of rejecting a caption of the erroneously named 'Teen' Gohan, let alone for an image of Piccolo when he might not have even been a teenager in Namekian years. If the image in question is in fact from around the time of the 23rd World Martial Arts Tournament, then Dende was older in the Namek Saga than Piccolo was in the image. 02:52, November 9, 2016 (UTC) :A year to a Namekian is 130 days, so going by that he is more then likely is a teenager when the 23rd world tournament. Also how do you know how old Dende was during the Namek Saga he actually looked like he was 4 maybe 5. :Okay, got my printout of the Dragon Ball timeline right here. So, At the 23rd, Piccolo was 3 human years old, so yes, he wasn't even a teenager if we use Namekian years. Dende was born in Age 757, The Namek/Frieza Saga was in December Age 762. So Dende could have been considered an Namekian teenager, and was shorter by at least a head than Piccolo. Dende was still shorter than Piccolo was in the image in question. So in short, it is 100% inaccurate for that image to be labeled "A teenage Piccolo". It's like putting a caption under Yoda calling him a child because he has similar stature. 04:39, November 9, 2016 (UTC) Piccolo was as tall as a human teenager and we don't know how old a teenager is for namekian's. Also here is proof that adolescent and teenager are the same thing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolescence, go read it. On the contrary my good sir, that very article has proof that they are NOT necessarily the same thing. Adolescence is usually associated with the teenage years, but its physical, psychological or cultural expressions may begin earlier and end later. I also can't help but get the impression that you fail to grasp that the image of Piccolo was not a teenager by human or Namekian standards. If they mean the same thing, which they don't, why are you so insistent of using a word that any the very wording gives erroneous implications? :Being "as tall as a human teenager" does not make someone a teenager. By that logic, someone like Peter Dinklage is a prepubescent child. Anyone between the ages of 13-19 is a teenager. All of the numbers in there end with "teen"... hence, ''teen''ager. Since Piccolo was not a teenager, the word adolescent makes more sense to use. -- 02:45, November 10, 2016 (UTC) Actually if we go by Earth years Toddler would be the correct term to use because he is only 3 years old in Earth years, if we go by Namekian years Child would be the correct term to use, because he is 5-6 in the third Earth year, so both of those kind of put adolescent out. Which means we still have a problem because of the fact that all of this is just speculation with his age because Namekians could have a different age limit for their teenage years we don't know. :This isn't speculation, it's literally his age. An adolescent is a young person in the process of developing into an adult. That's exactly what Piccolo was doing at that stage. We don't use Namekian years on this wiki so I'm not sure why you're even bothering to bring that up. You cannot have a "different age limit" for a teenager, because teenage literally means a person between 13 and 19 years old. To say Piccolo was not a teenager is not speculation, it's a fact. He was not between the ages of 13 and 19. -- 03:42, November 10, 2016 (UTC) More proof that adolescent is wrong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preadolescence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolescence#/media/File:Child_development_stages.svg. Or, ya know, just say "A young Piccolo"... Creeperman129 (talk) 11:34, November 10, 2016 (UTC) YES! THANK YOU! Final Chidori, you have restored my hope in the wikia community. Goku20, you have failed to provide a compelling reason why the caption should remain as "teenage", despite two people pointing out that it is a FACT Piccolo was not a teenager. Your only given reason for sabotaging my attempts to improve the accuracy of the description is that "they mean the same thing", which is not even necessarily true. Though I have the feeling you didn't even notice, I used the term "pubescent" in my last attempt to improve the accuracy of the caption. All I have left to say to you is Frieza's ninth line in Dragon Ball Z Abridged Episode 29. 00:02, November 11, 2016 (UTC) Look at the chart I provided then say that they don't mean the same thing, anyways you and Final are both wrong about what to use because Piccolo was a toddler in Earth years since we "don't use Namekian years" so you are right that the caption is wrong but about what to use in the caption you are wrong about. You're rather presumptuous, thinking you know better than myself AND Final Chidori, who as I just found out, happens to be a Moderator on this site. Knock it off or I'm adding your name to the list of suspected vandals. 00:34, November 11, 2016 (UTC) Well me, you, and Fianl are all three wrong about teenage or adolescent being used since Piccolo wasn't even in the age category for either, he is in the age category for Toddler. Also I don't give a damn if you add my name to some stupid list because Final actually knows I am not a vandal. Also don't threaten me. :First off, Goku20 is not a vandal and I'm sure he didn't mean to offend anyone by claiming we were wrong. :A toddler, unlike a teenager, doesn't have a defined age. A toddler is generally defined as a young child who's just beginning to walk. Since very young children aren't exactly the best at walking, they "toddle" which is why they're called ''toddle''rs. Piccolo at that age, had functional motor skills, a pretty advanced vocabulary, and a large set of memories from his previous life. Calling him a "toddler" doesn't make much sense, he's not a small child. It's almost like calling a dog or tree a "toddler", while they may fit the age, they don't really fit the *meaning*. :Piccolo fits the dictionary definition for "adolescent" fairly well, which is why I support calling him that over "teenager". Though, using a general term like "a young Piccolo" also works pretty well. -- 00:49, November 11, 2016 (UTC) I am in favor of using "a young Piccolo", and I know that at the 23rd World Tournament Piccolo had functional motor skills, but the whole reason I brought it up is because Tepheris was saying that "Piccolo wasn't in his teen years so he couldn't be a teenager" pretty much. I wasn't trying to offend anyone by saying they was wrong hell I even said I was wrong. Regarding the hyper explosive demon wave in Super episode 90 I was watching the episode in question again and I noticed that Piccolo was not show to be under any strain while using the technique against Goku, or even out of breath or sweating post-battle. It seems to me that the entire move was a farce to keep Goku occupied for Gohan, rather than an earnest attempt to best him. Should the article be changed to indicate that the move wasn't the full extend of Piccolo's power, or am I misinterpreting things?(Wetlanddenizenn (talk) 21:21, June 15, 2017 (UTC)) The Golden Frieza The saga appears under a different name in the DBZ and DBZ sections. I removed it in the Z section. Heartlesslove93 (talk) 22:15, August 5, 2019 (UTC) Gods of the Universe Saga is a DBZ Saga, Golden Frieza Saga is a DBS Saga, they're a little different. --Neffyarious (talk) 22:36, August 5, 2019 (UTC) Piccolo Godly Ki Sense? I'm curious, but what evidence is there in the movie that Piccolo is now able to sense godly ki in DBS: Broly? If the only evidence is being able to sense Broly's power or Frieza's power, Broly doesn't have any godly ki, his base energy is just so unbelievably strong that he can match up to other God forms, and as for Frieza, he was in his final form which only uses regular ki. CiscoTheSoto (talk) 20:57, August 11, 2019 (UTC) He sensed SSGod Goku's power vs Rage Broly's Power. That was when he decided to contact Goku to let him know he can't help, he would only get in the way. He sensed that Goku was in trouble. Goku then transforms into SSBlue. FlatZone (talk) 21:25, August 11, 2019 (UTC) That doesn't exactly confirm he can sense godly ki. It's also possible that he was watching the battle using his Far Seeing Arts and only chose to contact Goku when he saw that he was struggling and had a moment to speak with him.CiscoTheSoto (talk) 19:38, September 2, 2019 (UTC) Nope, he said he didn't know what was going on that he sensed the battle(Goku's SSG Power vs Broly's Wrath State power) and only the current Kami(Dende) can use the Far Seeing Arts and only from the Lookout itself. FlatZone (talk) 19:45, September 2, 2019 (UTC)